ATSUKI: It is 8th of September today, and I'm
talking with John Bamba, who is a secretary of IDRD, about the
issue which are happening in Western Kalimantan at his office of
IDRD in Pontianak. Okay! Well, hello Mr. ... oh can I call you
John? ( Yes, OK.) Well John, first of all, I'd like to hear
about the background of the establishment of the organization of
IDRD. Why have you gotten started doing this activity?
JOHN: I think, the main reason for the
establishment of the institute is that we concerned about the
cultural erosion which is happening in Dayak people caused by the
development program by the government and also I think it Is the
consequences of the era of the procivilization (sic), so we
concern very much with the Dayak culture because we know that the
nation should have an identity so when the Dayak culture has been
disappeared, the Dayak people will also lose their identity, so
that's why we are very concerned.
ATSUKI: Okay, so, what kind of actual activities do
you do?
JOHN: Our main program is research. And our objective
is for the cultural conservation, the Dayak cultural conservation
through research, and advocacy, of course.
ATSUKI: Is that a temporary research program or
do you do this continuously?
JOHN: Yes, we have some short term research.
That's small scale study, for example, when we conduct
research on the impact of the logging stations (sic) and
plantation project with livelihood of Dayak people. Also, we have
a long term research project, like what we are doing now, we have
been doing it for almost three years, that is a research on oral
traditions, the Dayak oral traditions.
ATSUKI: Who are your target people, you said
Dayak people, but are there many tribes that you are doing this
project?
JOHN: Well, in Kalimantan, there are more than
450 ethnic groups. So the Dayak people are very large numbers of
people, and we don't know exactly how many who is living in
West Kalimantan, but they are also quite a lot number of Dayak,
who is living in Kalimantan and in our program we are not
focusing our activities on the certain ethnic groups but we see
the issues, the issues that are happening. And we set some
priorities and we see what is a business problem that is
happening in certain areas so we are not focusing on a certain
ethnic group but we see the issues that is happening. What is the
emerging issue? Yeah.
ATSUKI: I see. So, the target is very large, and
through this program, how many people are actually working for
this program?
JOHN: Well there are about em maybe about fifteen
researchers who is doing the research on the oral traditions now,
and there will be another maybe four or five researchers in the
future who will be working on the identification of plant genetic
resources.
ATSUKI: Plant genetic resources? (Right). Are
they working full-time?
JOHN: Err, yes, they are working on contract. So we
contract professional researchers to do the research for us.
Yeah.
ATSUKI: So, how many people are actually
working in this office?
JOHN: Err, there are six full time staffs. Six full-time
staffs. And another five working part time. (Part time.) Yes.
ATSUKI: Is there any voluntary workers?
JOHN: Yes, there are also some volunteers working
here. (Oh, I see.) Yes. So when in the method of our recruitment
of staff, firstly we recruit them from volunteers. So we recruit
them as volunteers for three months before we decided to recruit
them as staff or not.
ATSUKI: Oh, I see. Is there any restriction to be a
staff?
JOHN: Yes, of course, because we have a certain
vision and mission and we know that working in this institute
needs a lot of commitment and also have to be em ... possessed a
clear mission and vision about what is going to do, so em ... it
is not very easy to work here I think. Because people have been,
we can say sacrifice their time, be productive, large time, you
know, to work here with, em, em, sometimes er ... unclear
guidelines . (That's right.) Especially in terms of
financial, yeah, very unclear, yeah.
ATSUKI: Do they get enough salary? (Yeah. Are they
above average?
JOHN: I think, I think in terms of salary, if they
are working hard, and if they can prove their commitment and
professionalism, salary will be no problem here. Yeah. But they
have to work professionally.
ATSUKI: How do you manage to make the money to
pay for them or doing this activity?
JOHN: Yes. Mostly, financially now, we still be
supported by a foreign foundation who has the same vision and
mission, and who agreed to work together without any restriction,
so we didn't want to cooperate with other NGOs, it Is best on
the equality and independence(?).
ATSUKI: How many of them?
JOHN: There are I think about three, four, five
foreign agencies we have now. And IDRD is very selective in
deciding to receive foreign funds from other countries. For
example, we have three criteria in accepting funds from other
institutions. First, we don't receive funds from the
organizations that destroy the environment. Second, we don't
also receive funds from the organizations that violate human
rights. And the third, we don't receive funds from the
organizations that corporate with the first and two. So the
organizations that corporate with the organizations that destroy
environment and violate human rights. That's why we have some
list of organizations that we don't want to receive funds
from. On the other side, we are also trying to be self reliance
through various programs that we are conducted now.
ATSUKI: What are they, for example? JOHN: Now
we are trying to make a publication for future founding, and we
also set up a small printing activities down stairs, and we also
now try to correct money from Dayak people which we call Dayak
Solidarity Fund. (A kind of donation?) Yes, a kind of donation,
we ask for 1,000 rupiah that is about 50 cents, US dollar per
month, so about 12,000 rupiah for one year for about 5 US dollars
annually.
ATSUKI: Has government actually criticized you
so far?
JOHN: Yes, I think that government is quite watchful
to IDRD, because most of the activities don't satisfy the
government. Because for example, we fight with the people when
they are struggling for their land right, when they reject the
huge mono-culture plantations use palm oil or industrial tree
plantation, we always fight with the people, and we always
support the people whatever the consequence is. So sometimes the
government doesn't like it.
ATSUKI: Since now, you haven't had any censorship
by now JOHN: Yes, I think all of the letters that come to our
office have been opened by the authority, and we also believe
that our telephone line is also bugged, but there is no direct
intervention in terms of for example arrest, or sort of things Re
that. It would never happened.
ATSUKI: If you actually, came across in the future,
how do you think you will think you will cope with?
JOHN: We believe that we have quite a number of
networks, locally, nationally and internationally. And like, with
you for example, from Japan, we've been having network for
quite a long time, and I will believe that this network is very
important, you know, to cope with such a problem in the future,
and that's why we are trying to support not only through the
organization IDRD, but we also have some other institutions which
share the same vision and mission, the same struggle, and we
believe that one of them will become the other alternatives in
the [struggle] if we are banned, for example. That's why we
are working very close with LBBT , and we are working very close
with also some other institutions.
ATSUKI: I see, but em ... as for the governing
side, some people say that those censorship by the government
cannot be helped, because in respect of economical development,
and also for the nation, stable nation, (Ah, stability) because
there are many races in Indonesia and they are using different
languages, and in order to keep it in one nation, we can't
help. What is your opinion?
JOHN: Yeah, but there weren't if its
various effect (?) that Indonesia consists from large number of
ethnic groups, so it's rationally if we must because we want
to keep the stability that we violate human rights. I think that
is not a good politics, because the freedom of expression, you
know, the freedom of speech and the freedom of the other human
rights should be protected whatever the reason is. Because if die
basic human rights is not protected, then people will become
just, you know, mere object of political structure, sort of thing
like that. And we realize that the Indonesian political system is
not really protect, you know, the human rights, especially the
fate of the indigenous people is very poor, because they have
almost no right, no freedom to express for what they want, you
know.
ATSUKI: So, as the last question or I might ask you
more, but ah, what is your main, future a kind of goal, for this
organization and for you individually. What is the goal for
you?
JOHN: Yes, we want to achieve what we call,
unity and maturity. So in the future we hope that the Dayak
people will be able to be self-reliance, but in unity, you know,
in togetherness. So, in that condition, they will be able to have
a pro- gaining position, to struggle for their rights, to
struggle for their needs, so that in the future I think they will
be able to get kind of self-determination, sort of thing like
that because now they have no opportunity to fight for their
rights, because they are disunited and they are still very weak
in terms of the economy, of education, in terms of politics, they
are still very weak. And they have to unite to be able to get
strong... because Dayak people are very rich in natural resource
in fact because they are living in Kalimantan. For example in the
west Kalimantan, the west Kalimantan province is the first (?)
poorest province in Indonesia. (Oh, is that right?) Yes, and it
is very various effect to think about the effect (?), because in
fact, Kalimantan was very rich, very rich in natural resources.
But why people are living very poor? So there must be something
wrong, there must be something wrong with the development that is
established by the government.
ATSUKI: Why did you get started to do
this activity, why did you think you want to work- for this? As
for your personal historical experience, did you study in the
university or experience when you are in childhood?
JOHN: Yes, I was born in the village living in that
village for about, I think, 18 years and I know very well that
living good, and I realized that those conditions far away from
the city, and I had been years, and I was grown up there in that
in the village is very encouraging, very should be maintained,
and I know there are a lot of indigenous knowledge which is very
good, for example in terms of management of the environment now
indigenous people have a lot of knowledge, on how to manage the
environment sustainably (sic), but when we hear what is happening
in town, what is happening in the city, it is--ah--it is
happening on the contrary. People are trying to exploit the
natural resources for their own sake, and they destroy the
environment and they violate human rights, there is no justice at
all for people. So I also think that Dayak people will never
survive if they don't start struggling from now. And I know
that it is only very small number of, even Dayak people
themselves, who has decided to struggle for the Dayak. So, I
myself is very concerned of this issue, and I know how valuable
is the Dayak culture, how valuable is the indigenous knowledge of
the Dayak culture. And I know that it has to be conserved, it has
to be maintained, because this so-called modernization is proved
to be very destructive, you know.
ATSUKI: So, you think those kind of activity is going
to make a real happiness or real prosperous future rather than
just, ah, economical development.
JOHN: Yes, because sometimes people major prosperity
in terms of economic only, but in fact, you know, prosperity is
not only in economic aspect, so what is happening with the Dayak
people in the village, they are feeling prosperity when they
could live harmoniously with the nature. That is living in the
prosperity. So living in the prosperity, you know, doesn't
mean living very rich or living wealthy (?), no. So it's
different point of view, I think.
ATSUKI: OK, I guess that's all, thank you
very much, John. (You are welcome.) I hope you come to Japan
sometime again. And, ah, talk those kinds of things in Japan.
JOHN: Yeah. I would be glad to visit Japan in
the future,
ATSUKI: Thank you very much!
JOHN: You are welcome.
